demoncasterouter
OK, here's the whole thing aboput my 22 acct deal. I have to make a decision now, jump, or get off the diving board. Sorry this is so long.
Here’s the scenario:
9-20- checked TU and EX CR’s. Saw accounts on my EX report from CA named FCS. 12 of these same accounts were on my TU report. These were opened in 96, 97, and were supposedly not charged off until 98. They also weren’t put on my reports until 12-99.
9-25- sent validation letters for all 23 accounts.
10-11- got this back as validation for only 16 of these accounts:
DECLARATION
Please note that a separate form must be filled out for EACH SEPARATE ACCOUNT.
Please provide all of the following information and submit the appropriate forms and paperwork within 30 days from the date of your receipt of this request for validation.
Name and Address of Alleged Creditor:________________KD_Hospital_____________________________
Name on File of Alleged Debtor:
_______________________demoncasterouter_________________________________
Alleged Account #:
______________________00000000__________________________________
Address on File for Alleged Debtor:
______________________(The correct address)________________________
Amount of alleged debt: ___________________________$60__________________________________
Date that this alleged debt became payable:
_________________________6-16-97________________________________
Date of original charge off or delinquency:
_________________________1-5-98__________________________________
Was this debt assigned to debt collector or purchased? ________________________Assigned_________________________________
· Please attach a copy of the agreement with your client that grants FCS the authority to collect this alleged debt. N/A
· Please attach a copy of any signed agreement debtor has made with debt collector, or other verifiable proof that debtor has a contractual obligation to pay debt collector. N/A
· Please attach a copy of any agreement that bears the signature of debtor, wherein he/she agreed to pay creditor. N/A
· Please attach copies of all statements while this account was open. N/A
___Same lady that signed my CMRRR that works for the CA, NOT the hospital___
Authorized Signature For Creditor
_______10-04-02___________________
Date
You must return this completed form along with copies of all requested information, assignments or other transfer agreements, which would establish your right to collect this alleged debt within 30 days from the date of your receipt of this letter. Your claim cannot and WILL NOT be considered if any portion of this form is not completed and returned with copies of all requested documents. This is a request for validation made pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Please allow 30 days for processing after I receive this information back.
(Next Page)
________________________________________________________________________
1327675 Demoncasterouter, Mrs.
ACCT: 1327675 Guar: (My correct social sec#)
Demoncasterouter, Mrs. Demoncasterouter, Mr.
My old address My old address
My old City My old city
My old phone My old phone
30 F ADM/SER: 05/08/96 UR CHG: 0 GP/PEN 0
OP DISCHARGE: AR CHG: 178.00SLF 123.25 5/14/96
BD 02/25/97 LST STMT: H 07/16/96 BALANCE: 123.25
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROCEDURE DESCRIPTION COUNT AMOUNT
1636 One to one Observation per HR 2 86.00
2873 Monitor, Fetal external 1 92.00
MC-GPPENOP GROUP PENSION OP MC ADJ 1 -26.70
PGPPEN GR. PENSIONS PAYMENT 1 -28.05
---------------------------
123.25
(End pages)
This is only an example of one of these. They only sent back validation for 16 of the accounts. The above printout had the hospitals stamp on it. But it looked like a wet stamp. The rest are similar, w/ different dates, but no contracts. Looks almost like full validation, doesn’t it? Anyway, I’ll go on:
10-01-02 disputed w/ TU and EX.
11-03-02 received disputes back. 1 was deleted from TU, leaving 12 verified. 1 was deleted from EX, leaving 22 verified.
Now, remember they validated ONLY 16 of the 22 accounts. So, basically, if this is partial validation (which that’s part of what I’m asking you, because they sent no contracts), then that’s 2 FDCPA and 2 FCRA violations for verifying w/ TU and EX after only partially validating.
If these are fully validated, then that’s still 1 FDCPA and 1 FCRA violation for verifying 6 non-validated accounts (22-16=6). But which is it?
Other 2 violations are for failure to investigate ALL of the accounts (FCRA). And failure to report the accounts as “in dispute” w/ the CRA’s (FCRA). So a total of 4 violations in all…….I think…???
The story goes on:
11-11-02 sent intent to sue based on violations to the vice president. Didn’t hear a word back.
12-02-02 complained to FTC, and BBB.
12-05-02 got a fed-exed letter from VP (I wonder why???? HAHA). The following is her response letter. The things that are in quotes, are the things that I wrote to her:
Dear Mr. Demoncasterouter,
In our continuing effort to satisfy your request for validation of some 22 unpaid balances w/ KD Hospital, I will attempt to address your issues as they have been written.
As stated in your communications, you are not refusing to pay, but you dispute the bills. To date we have not been told specifically what is in dispute. In records previously sent top you the info indicates medical services were provided to you, your wife, and children in 1996 and 1997. Most balances due are after your insurance paid. Additionally, I find no records that indicate any dispute for the last 5-6 years.
Issues as stated in your letter:
"When an alleged debtor requests debt validation, it is up to the collection agency to obtain the information directly from the original creditor, and to mail that information to the debtor."
You state…”you have merely copied what you have in your computers, placed a KD stamp upon it, and mailed it to me…”
Your statement of fact is not only inaccurate, but totally untrue. The documents mailed to you were produced by KD Hospital Staff and sent to FCS. We placed our stamp of disclosure on each page (as required by law) and mailed them to you.
"You MUST provide a copy of a signed agreement between yourself and the hospital, which proves that FCS has authorization to collect on these accounts."
I am not aware of a law that requires me to provide you a copy of our contract with KD. Although you quoted one case and several rules, I find no evidence in your correspondence to substantiate this demand. If you will provide me a copy of this law, a duplicate of our contract will be sent immediately.
"You MUST provide a contractual agreement whereby I am legally obligated to pay Financial Control Services."
You are not obligated to pay FCS.
"You have not even provided a signed contract, whereby I have agreed to pay the original creditor."
I’m sure you are aware of the recent changes in the law protecting your health information (this is where signatures are maintained). We have requested copies of signed financial responsibility statements from KDH. They are in the process of gathering these copies from Medical Records. The approximate date we have been given is December 10th. With the new laws in place, we must know if you dispute having medical care provided to you, your wife, and children by KDH as reflected in the itemized statements you received. We can only provide this information to the patient/guarantor. Your confirmation will be needed to mail you this data.
The signature on the financial responsibility statement is also the hospital’s authorization to bill your insurance…which has paid. Any personal responsibility would be defined in your policy…(i.e.) deductibles, co-pay, out-of-network charges, etc.
"Under the heading “Authorized signature for creditor”, Ms. Alfred E. Newman placed her own signature in this slot. Ms. Newman is NOT an authorized signatory for the hospital."
Please advise who you consider “Authorized”.
"Responsibilities of furnishers of information to consumer reporting agencies…duty to provide accurate information.
A. Reporting information with actual knowledge of errors. A person shall not furnish any information relating to a consumer to any reporting agency if the person knows or consciously avoids knowing that the information is inaccurate."
The information we have dates back to 1996/97 and, until now, has never been disputed. To date we do not know what you consider to be an error and what is inaccurate about the information we have.
"B. Reporting information after notice and confirmation of errors. A person shall not furnish information relating to a consumer to any consumer reporting agency if the person has been notified by the consumer that specific information is inaccurate and the information is, in fact, inaccurate."
ANY inaccurate information we have will be corrected immediately. But first we must be made aware of the error. Once again, I encourage you to notify me of the erroneous reporting.
Please rest assured that FCS and KDH work diligently to maintain accurate information. We are here to work with you in any way possible to resolve your dispute.
Sincerely,
Ms. VP.
Looks like a song and dance letter intended for the FTC or the BBB (whichever got to her first). Anyway, I’m at that time now. I have to decide now how to proceed: file suit or negotiate. I think I have a good case, but that doesn’t mean anything. Do you think a judge would think I have a good case?
This looks like I have them on 4 violations, but I wanna know from the experts: YOU GUYS!
Here’s the scenario:
9-20- checked TU and EX CR’s. Saw accounts on my EX report from CA named FCS. 12 of these same accounts were on my TU report. These were opened in 96, 97, and were supposedly not charged off until 98. They also weren’t put on my reports until 12-99.
9-25- sent validation letters for all 23 accounts.
10-11- got this back as validation for only 16 of these accounts:
DECLARATION
Please note that a separate form must be filled out for EACH SEPARATE ACCOUNT.
Please provide all of the following information and submit the appropriate forms and paperwork within 30 days from the date of your receipt of this request for validation.
Name and Address of Alleged Creditor:________________KD_Hospital_____________________________
Name on File of Alleged Debtor:
_______________________demoncasterouter_________________________________
Alleged Account #:
______________________00000000__________________________________
Address on File for Alleged Debtor:
______________________(The correct address)________________________
Amount of alleged debt: ___________________________$60__________________________________
Date that this alleged debt became payable:
_________________________6-16-97________________________________
Date of original charge off or delinquency:
_________________________1-5-98__________________________________
Was this debt assigned to debt collector or purchased? ________________________Assigned_________________________________
· Please attach a copy of the agreement with your client that grants FCS the authority to collect this alleged debt. N/A
· Please attach a copy of any signed agreement debtor has made with debt collector, or other verifiable proof that debtor has a contractual obligation to pay debt collector. N/A
· Please attach a copy of any agreement that bears the signature of debtor, wherein he/she agreed to pay creditor. N/A
· Please attach copies of all statements while this account was open. N/A
___Same lady that signed my CMRRR that works for the CA, NOT the hospital___
Authorized Signature For Creditor
_______10-04-02___________________
Date
You must return this completed form along with copies of all requested information, assignments or other transfer agreements, which would establish your right to collect this alleged debt within 30 days from the date of your receipt of this letter. Your claim cannot and WILL NOT be considered if any portion of this form is not completed and returned with copies of all requested documents. This is a request for validation made pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Please allow 30 days for processing after I receive this information back.
(Next Page)
________________________________________________________________________
1327675 Demoncasterouter, Mrs.
ACCT: 1327675 Guar: (My correct social sec#)
Demoncasterouter, Mrs. Demoncasterouter, Mr.
My old address My old address
My old City My old city
My old phone My old phone
30 F ADM/SER: 05/08/96 UR CHG: 0 GP/PEN 0
OP DISCHARGE: AR CHG: 178.00SLF 123.25 5/14/96
BD 02/25/97 LST STMT: H 07/16/96 BALANCE: 123.25
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROCEDURE DESCRIPTION COUNT AMOUNT
1636 One to one Observation per HR 2 86.00
2873 Monitor, Fetal external 1 92.00
MC-GPPENOP GROUP PENSION OP MC ADJ 1 -26.70
PGPPEN GR. PENSIONS PAYMENT 1 -28.05
---------------------------
123.25
(End pages)
This is only an example of one of these. They only sent back validation for 16 of the accounts. The above printout had the hospitals stamp on it. But it looked like a wet stamp. The rest are similar, w/ different dates, but no contracts. Looks almost like full validation, doesn’t it? Anyway, I’ll go on:
10-01-02 disputed w/ TU and EX.
11-03-02 received disputes back. 1 was deleted from TU, leaving 12 verified. 1 was deleted from EX, leaving 22 verified.
Now, remember they validated ONLY 16 of the 22 accounts. So, basically, if this is partial validation (which that’s part of what I’m asking you, because they sent no contracts), then that’s 2 FDCPA and 2 FCRA violations for verifying w/ TU and EX after only partially validating.
If these are fully validated, then that’s still 1 FDCPA and 1 FCRA violation for verifying 6 non-validated accounts (22-16=6). But which is it?
Other 2 violations are for failure to investigate ALL of the accounts (FCRA). And failure to report the accounts as “in dispute” w/ the CRA’s (FCRA). So a total of 4 violations in all…….I think…???
The story goes on:
11-11-02 sent intent to sue based on violations to the vice president. Didn’t hear a word back.
12-02-02 complained to FTC, and BBB.
12-05-02 got a fed-exed letter from VP (I wonder why???? HAHA). The following is her response letter. The things that are in quotes, are the things that I wrote to her:
Dear Mr. Demoncasterouter,
In our continuing effort to satisfy your request for validation of some 22 unpaid balances w/ KD Hospital, I will attempt to address your issues as they have been written.
As stated in your communications, you are not refusing to pay, but you dispute the bills. To date we have not been told specifically what is in dispute. In records previously sent top you the info indicates medical services were provided to you, your wife, and children in 1996 and 1997. Most balances due are after your insurance paid. Additionally, I find no records that indicate any dispute for the last 5-6 years.
Issues as stated in your letter:
"When an alleged debtor requests debt validation, it is up to the collection agency to obtain the information directly from the original creditor, and to mail that information to the debtor."
You state…”you have merely copied what you have in your computers, placed a KD stamp upon it, and mailed it to me…”
Your statement of fact is not only inaccurate, but totally untrue. The documents mailed to you were produced by KD Hospital Staff and sent to FCS. We placed our stamp of disclosure on each page (as required by law) and mailed them to you.
"You MUST provide a copy of a signed agreement between yourself and the hospital, which proves that FCS has authorization to collect on these accounts."
I am not aware of a law that requires me to provide you a copy of our contract with KD. Although you quoted one case and several rules, I find no evidence in your correspondence to substantiate this demand. If you will provide me a copy of this law, a duplicate of our contract will be sent immediately.
"You MUST provide a contractual agreement whereby I am legally obligated to pay Financial Control Services."
You are not obligated to pay FCS.
"You have not even provided a signed contract, whereby I have agreed to pay the original creditor."
I’m sure you are aware of the recent changes in the law protecting your health information (this is where signatures are maintained). We have requested copies of signed financial responsibility statements from KDH. They are in the process of gathering these copies from Medical Records. The approximate date we have been given is December 10th. With the new laws in place, we must know if you dispute having medical care provided to you, your wife, and children by KDH as reflected in the itemized statements you received. We can only provide this information to the patient/guarantor. Your confirmation will be needed to mail you this data.
The signature on the financial responsibility statement is also the hospital’s authorization to bill your insurance…which has paid. Any personal responsibility would be defined in your policy…(i.e.) deductibles, co-pay, out-of-network charges, etc.
"Under the heading “Authorized signature for creditor”, Ms. Alfred E. Newman placed her own signature in this slot. Ms. Newman is NOT an authorized signatory for the hospital."
Please advise who you consider “Authorized”.
"Responsibilities of furnishers of information to consumer reporting agencies…duty to provide accurate information.
A. Reporting information with actual knowledge of errors. A person shall not furnish any information relating to a consumer to any reporting agency if the person knows or consciously avoids knowing that the information is inaccurate."
The information we have dates back to 1996/97 and, until now, has never been disputed. To date we do not know what you consider to be an error and what is inaccurate about the information we have.
"B. Reporting information after notice and confirmation of errors. A person shall not furnish information relating to a consumer to any consumer reporting agency if the person has been notified by the consumer that specific information is inaccurate and the information is, in fact, inaccurate."
ANY inaccurate information we have will be corrected immediately. But first we must be made aware of the error. Once again, I encourage you to notify me of the erroneous reporting.
Please rest assured that FCS and KDH work diligently to maintain accurate information. We are here to work with you in any way possible to resolve your dispute.
Sincerely,
Ms. VP.
Looks like a song and dance letter intended for the FTC or the BBB (whichever got to her first). Anyway, I’m at that time now. I have to decide now how to proceed: file suit or negotiate. I think I have a good case, but that doesn’t mean anything. Do you think a judge would think I have a good case?
This looks like I have them on 4 violations, but I wanna know from the experts: YOU GUYS!