View Full Version : Fair Isaac B/L ignores balances for accounts with ZERO limits - status irrelevant


Christine
M0ri4rty, I'm starting a new topic and copy some excerpts on the subject.

"Do you have a reference on the myfico site or anywhere else that comes from FICO?

If they do, it represents a change from how I understood they were doing things when I worked at Experian. And it doesn't make any sense. A closed revolving trade acts like more like an installment loan since you can't charge any more to it. Certainly, revolving trades with a zero balance can't count toward the balance to limit ratio; most people have a number of closed trades with zero balances on their reports, so the balance to limit ratio would become useless as a predictive attribute. So the only way I can see that what you're saying could be true is if a closed revolving trade counted until its balance was paid off. But that would mean that as soon as it was paid off, the score would instantly drop!

I've got a bunch of data with FICO scores from our take-one business, so I will check it out and see whether the evidence favors one of these scenarios. If anyone has a closed revolving trade with a balance, please weigh in with what happens to your score when you pay it off."

Of course I don't have anything from Fair Isaac other than their explanations for the Beacon scores.

Account 1 - MBNA closed due to CCC:

Reported as closed, FORTUNATELY the limit was still reported as 15K, and it was paid down to a $6,633. I ran the numbers and both the limit and the balance were included in the ratio.

WITH the MBNA account the B/L was 35%, without 13%

From the posting to my client:

"I went through the effort of calculating this for two reasons:

1) It's now the second score lowering reason, would be the first one without the collection. 35% doesn't sound bad, but it is.

2) Wanted to make sure it counts the CLOSED MBNA account. Don't know how scores would count the balance if they reduced the limit to zero as most lenders do when they close an account."

That leaves the question, WOULD Fair Isaac include the account IF the limit was ZERO?

Account 2: Capital One charge-off

This one is already public, so feel free to have a look:

http://forum.creditcourt.com/discus/messages/346/333.html

I posted screenshots of the online report as well as the Beacon details and the score explanations.

Since there were NO other revolving accounts on the report, there wasn't much calculating to do :)

I have found that Fair Isaac's software is quite inconsistent, things are often NOT as Fair Isaac claims, and it sure doesn't make sense to me to include closed accounts and charged off accounts in the B/L ratio.

Obviously it takes a ton of time to really look at all these details and then get them ready for publication. If I had the time, I could have literally hundreds of these pages.

Christine
"That leaves the question, WOULD Fair Isaac include the account IF the limit was ZERO?"

Actually, I think they still count the balance. I have seen B/L of over 100%.

Christine
It's not whether an account is CLOSED, it's whether there's a ZERO limit.

Equifax put my Cap One accounts in dispute and the score went up to 681.

NOW the limits are ZERO! The score went to 689. And those two accounts have most of my balances, over 8K.

All of a sudden it all makes sense. It's not that STATUS the determines whether an account balance is included in the B/L ratio, it's the ZERO instead of a 1+ or N/A.

The OVER 100% B/L ratios where due to charge-offs with the amount owed much higher than the credit limit.

trixie
Hey, Christine I disputed the 3 charged off accounts on my husband's equifax report - 2 Cap One, 1 1st Natl Bank of Marin

They were all reading "current past due balances" $1100/$1100/$400.

His score went from a "pitiful" 596 to an "acceptable" 671 when they were in dispute.

I have both FICO reports showing this difference. If it helps you, let me know.

Christine
Trixie, the scores could have increased for several reasons, BUT - did you check the balance/limit ratio before and after?

In Holly's case with Cap One we already documented that the Cap One charge-off was INCLUDED in the B/L ratio. Obviously, a chargeoff is a CLOSED account it should NOT be included in the B/L ratio. Another "flaw" in Fair Isaac's formulas.

trixie
I've got the B/L before 158% - we only have 3 good cards, they were close to "max" but not over.

It also states that the past due credit obligations is $3070

Charged off accounts Cap One $1,302
Cap One $ 1,156
1st Nat'l Bank of Marin $ 612

Total $3070




I don't have the B/L during the investigation.

Christine
Since the B/L was over 100%, it's almost a sure thing that the charge-offs are included.

Don't you have unlimited access to Equifax to your CURRENT B/L ratio? Oh, you can't get your Equifax. That sucks.

drjgrahamdc
I currently have a B/L ratio of 82%. I want to get it to the threshold of where it is considered bad which I heard is at 75%.

Will it make a dramatic difference in my score by paying off enough to get it to that level or is it ust slight since it's still fairly high at 75%?

Christine
It won't make much of a difference, what you heard is wrong.

Please also read Can you calculate YOUR balance/limit ratio? (http://creditforum.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1775)