FICO score dropping with deletions!!

My husbands FICO score dropped again this time after a collection tradline that was not validated was deleted.
I thought the scores were suppose to go up with deletion???
That the second time this has happened.
When I started cleaning the report his score was 657 now its down to 619.
Any ideas on this?

P.S. Thanks Christine for helping me get on this board, I was having some trouble.
:)

Glad to see it worked now!

While it's possible to see scores go down after a deletion because you are scored by a different "scoring model," that's very unlikely if your husband's case.

It seems like "something" else must have changed. Can you post the report (w/o the personal data) BEFORE the deletions and indicate which accounts were deleted?

Hello Christine, here is the Equifax report, the Capital One balance is now 1500.


Public Records




No Public Record Information on file.
No bankruptcies on file

Lien filed 11/1995; Division RE; Case or Other ID Number XXXXXXXXX Amount $1141; Class City/County Government; Released 06/1997;

No judgements on file

No garnishments on file

No secured loans on file

No marital statuses on file

No financial counseling on file

No foreclosures on file

No non-responsibility entries on file

Collection Accounts

Client: Account Number: XXXXXXXXXXX Date Reported: 10/1998 Amount: 212 Balance: 212 Balance Date: 10/1998 Last Activity:11/1996 Date Assigned: 04/1997 Collection Status: UNPAID Whose Account: INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNT Collection Agency Information: Collection agency. (DELETED)

Status Date: 10/1998 Note:



Credit Information

Company Name Account Number Date Last Type of Account High Items as of Date Reported Date
and Whose Acount Opened Activity and Status Credit Terms Balance Past Due Reported


Bank 1 - XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNT 02/1999 05/1999 Revolving
CHARGE-OFF $0 $0 08/2001
Prior Paying History

PAID CHARGE OFF
CREDIT CARD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bank of America XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNT 11/1994 06/1996 Revolving
CHARGE-OFF $500 11 $488 $63 06/1996
Prior Paying History
30 days past due 01 times; 60 days past due 01 times; 90 + days past due 04 times;
CHARGED OFF ACCOUNT
AMOUNT IN H/C COLUMN IS CREDIT LIMIT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Capital One XXXXXXXXXXXXX
INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNT date opened 02/2002 04/2002 Revolving
PAYS AS AGREED $1780 144 $1630 04/2002
Prior Paying History

CREDIT CARD OPEN


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Discover Financial Services XXXXXXX1XXXX
INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNT 04/1991 07/1995 Revolving
CHARGE-OFF $5000 124 $0 07/1999
Prior Paying History
30 days past due 01 times; 60 days past due 01 times; 90 + days past due 03 times;
CHARGED OFF ACCOUNT
ACCOUNT TRANSFERRED OR SOLD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Division of Support ENFORCEMEN XXXXXXXXXX
INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNT 12/1993 05/1997 Open
120+ DAYS PAST DUE $0 12/1998
Prior Paying History
30 days past due 00 times; 60 days past due 00 times; 90 + days past due 01 times;

CLOSED ACCOUNT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fashion Bug XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
JOINT ACCOUNT opened 04/1994 05/2000 Revolving
PAYS AS AGREED $300 $0 03/2002
Prior Paying History

CREDIT CARD OPEN
AMOUNT IN H/C COLUMN IS CREDIT LIMIT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Federal CR UN XXXXXXXXXXXX
INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNT 05/1994 02/1999 Installment
PAYS AS AGREED $12500 241 $0 01/2000
Prior Paying History

PAID ACCOUNT/ZERO BALANCE
AUTO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Federal CR UN XXXXXXXXXXX
INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNT 09/1994 09/1995 Installment
PAYS AS AGREED $800 66 $0 10/1995
Prior Paying History

PAID ACCOUNT/ZERO BALANCE


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Federal CR UN XXXXXXXXXXXX
INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNT 10/1993 05/1994 Installment
PAYS AS AGREED $500 79 $0 08/1994
Prior Paying History




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Additional Information

Companies that Requested your Credit File

04/23/2002 ID-Equifax Consumer Services, Inc

04/23/2002 Equifax Consumer Services

04/23/2002 Equifax Consumer Services SP

04/23/2002 Equifax Consumer Services

04/23/2002 Equifax Consumer Services

04/22/2002 Equifax-Auto MTNC Update

04/11/2002 Equifax - Disclosure

04/07/2002 ID-Equifax Consumer Services, Inc

03/15/2002 REA-Purchased Paper LLC-Purbuf

03/14/2002 Evergreen Credit Reporting

08/29/2001 AR-KEESLER Federal Cu

07/19/2001 PRM-Capital One

06/28/2001 REA-Purchased Paper LLC-Purbuf

06/27/2001 First USA Bank

06/22/2001 DTC-Capital One

05/15/2001 REA-Purchased Paper LLC-Purbuf

05/13/2001 Consumerinfo.Com

07/24/2000 KIMMEL & Beach, P.A.

07/06/2000 KIMMEL & Beach, P.A.

Client: Account Number: XXXXXXXXXXX Date Reported: 10/1998 Amount: 212 Balance: 212 Balance Date: 10/1998 Last Activity:11/1996 Date Assigned: 04/1997 Collection Status: UNPAID Whose Account: INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNT Collection Agency Information: Collection agency. DELETED.

This is the only account that I have had deleted on this report.

The Discover card is coming off in July, I had tried to get them to remove it now but they wouldn't do it until July.
I have been disputing the Bank Of America accounts as these accounts are being reported with the same account number except the first diget. I contacted the Bank Of America and they confirmed to me that one of these accounts doesn't exsist.
I have resubmitted another dispute with Equifax and a dispute to Bank Of America. As Equifax's investigation came back verified on an account that doesn't exsist.
Like I said in my earlier post, his score was 657 when I saw this report the first time. Now his score is 619.
I noticed the score continually climbed as I disputed more and more, but after the disputes were resolved the score dropped to 619.

I highlighted the important parts - please make sure I got that right.

That Fashion Bug account is your best account. Use it for a purchase and pay it off in full the next month. It might help your scores a little if you do that twice a year and can also help you get limit increases.

Like I said in my earlier post, his score was 657 when I saw this report the first time. Now his score is 619.

Well, it could have to do with the Cap One account.

WHEN did you get that 657 score? Was Cap One on it? What was the balance?

Could you post the score factors then and now?

What is your Cap One LIMIT?


Re. BofA: Request the verification data from the bureau, and dispute it directly with BofA. Ask that they delete BOTH accounts immediately as they have been reporting that duplicate account.

I thank you once again for your time and help.

This report is from the time when my husbands score WAS 657.

That 657 score was the very first report I ordered with Equifax dated April 23. It started rising with the disputes I made, then dropped to 619 after the disputes were handled. I had the one collection account deleted that was a 212.00 collection.

The Capital One balance is getting smaller as its down to just over 1500. now. The limit was 1870.00 (amount of debt they reaffirmed) yes, my husband got hood winked into this debt. He signed thinking he was getting a card with a 50.00 limit and instead he got a card with a 1870.00 balance owing. I tried disputing with them and they never did send me any proof that he had authorized this debt reaffirmation. Just a letter explaining that they reaffirmed this debt. I finally gave up and thought to pay it and get his credit back in order again. (sad thing is that 7 months ago the collection agency were trying to settle for 400.00 on this debt)
I am still trying to get the Bank Of America deleted or corrected as the account number they are reporting is wrong. I called BOA and they told me to fax my dispute over to them which I have done two weeks ago. They told me that they don't even have account numbers that start with the number 1.
The problem on the Experian report is that BOA is being reported twice with account numbers that are the same except for the first digit and the balances are a bit different and the dates are different but I know this is the same one. I had disputed with all Three CRA and Experian and Equifax came back on the duplicate account as verified. I had send another dispute by mail to Equifax but on Friday I got one of their letters saying once again to send them proof of Identification. (that's the second time they have done this) I have been sending them the same form letters, same information all the time and all of a sudden they are not happy with it. Its such B.S.

Score factors:

First Reason Code: 38 Your first reason code is 38, “Serious delinquency, and public record or collection filed”. This is the single most important factor affecting your score. This reason occurs when there is a derogatory public record or collection agency reference, as well as one or more serious delinquencies on your credit accounts, appearing on your credit report. Studies reveal that consumers with previous late payments are much more likely to pay late in the future. There is no “quick fix” to improve the score if the derogatory public record, collection item, or serious credit account delinquency appearing on your credit report is valid. However, as these age and fall off the credit report, their impact on the score will gradually decrease. (Derogatory public records, collection items, and credit account delinquencies stay on your report for up to seven years; there are items that could remain longer.) Bear in mind that satisfying or paying off the collection item or derogatory public record won't remove this information from your credit report. The fact that it occurred is still predictive of future repayment risk, and thus it will still be considered by the score.

Second Reason Code: 10 Your second reason code is 10, “Proportion of balances to credit limits on bank/national revolving or other revolving accounts is too high”. This is the second most important factor affecting your score. Analysis of consumer credit behavior repeatedly finds that owing a substantial balance on revolving accounts relative to the amount of revolving credit available to you represents increased risk. In fact, the level of revolving debt is one of the most important factors in the FICO score. The score evaluates your total balances in relation to your total available credit on revolving accounts, as well as on individual revolving accounts. For a given amount of revolving credit available, a greater amount owed indicates a greater risk, and lowers the score. (For credit cards, the total outstanding balance on your last statement is generally the amount that will show in your credit report. Note that even if you pay off your credit cards in full each and every month, your credit report may show the last billing statement balance on those accounts.)

Paying down your revolving account balances is a good sign that you are able and willing to manage and repay your debt, and this will increase your score. On the other hand, shifting balances among revolving accounts, opening up new revolving accounts, and closing down other revolving accounts will not necessarily improve your score, and could possibly decrease your score.

Third Reason Code: 18 Your third reason code is 18, “Number of accounts with delinquency”. The appearance of this reason indicates that there is past or present evidence of late payments on one or more of your credit obligations. Late payments are a very powerful predictor of future repayment risk. There is no “quick fix” to improve the score if these reported late payments are valid. However, as these missed payments age and fall off the credit report (late payments stay on your report for up to seven years), their impact on the score will gradually decrease. In the meantime, it is important to pay all your credit obligations on time. Additional missed payments may lower your score.

Fourth Reason Code: 13 Your fourth reason code is 13, “Time since delinquency is too recent or unknown”. Analysis of consumer credit histories shows that consumers with previous late payments are much more likely to pay late in the future. The FICO score evaluates not only the presence of previous late payments, but also how recently the missed payments occurred. In general, the more recently a payment was missed, the greater the risk, and the lower the score. There is no “quick fix” to raise your score if the late payment on your credit report is valid. (Credit account delinquencies stay on your report for up to seven years. Bear in mind that closing an account on which you had previously missed a payment does not make the late payment disappear from your credit report.) To improve your credit score over time, you need to pay your bills on time. The longer you pay your bills on time, the better the score. If you have late payments, get caught up on back payments and stay current. As time passes the importance of these previous late payments will gradually lessen and the score will increase – as long as you make your payments on time on all of your credit obligations, and use your available credit responsibly.

In rare cases, evidence of a past missed payment on a credit account is present on the credit report, but the date of the late payment cannot be determined exactly. An “undateable” credit account delinquency on a credit report still represents greater risk than never having missed a payment at all, and thus it will still affect the score.

Quick question:

So those score factors must have been the ones for the first report. What are they now?


And re. Cap One, don't know if you saw that:

Capital One reaffirming OLD debts with expired SOLs by offering new credit line (http://www.bayhouse.com/credit-forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15)

Its apears that his old State Tax Lien is going to continue to be the top factor. I guess Tax liens can really be a problem on your report. Even paid its a horrible mark.

Question? How can a creditor report a chargeoff and a balance owing at the same time? As that BOA is reporting a chargeoff and a balance owning and a payment past due.

Serious delinquency or derogatory indicators/remarks, and public record or collection information is being reported on your credit file
You have evidence of seriously delinquent payment behavior (60 days past due or greater). In addition, there are 1 derogatory public records that have been filed. The percent of U.S. population with serious delinquency being reported on their credit obligations who also have a derogatory public record filed or collection assigned is 14%.

This score evaluates when there is a derogatory public record or collection agency reference, as well as one or more serious delinquencies on your credit accounts, appearing on your credit bureau report. Studies reveal that consumers with previous late payments are much more likely to pay late in the future. However, as these items age and fall off the credit bureau report, their impact on the score will gradually decrease. (Most derogatory public records, collection items, and credit account delinquencies stay on your report for no more than seven years, though there are certain items that could remain longer.)

There is no "quick fix" to improve the score if the derogatory public record, collection item, or serious credit account delinquency appearing on your credit bureau report is valid. Bear in mind that satisfying or paying off the collection item or derogatory public record will not remove this information from your credit bureau report. The fact that it occurred is still predictive of future repayment risk, so it will still be considered by the score.



Balances are due on accounts that are past due or have derogatory indicators/remarks
According to your credit file, the total amount owed on your past due credit obligations is $488. Comparatively, the national average of total amount owed on past due credit obligations by U.S. consumers is around $10,000.

This reason appears when there is evidence of recently missed payments on your credit bureau report. Late payments are a very powerful predictor of future repayment risk. Research shows that the greater the balances on past due accounts, the higher the risk. Bear in mind that closing an account on which a past due amount is still owed does not make it disappear from your credit report.

In order to improve your credit rating over time, it's important to pay all bills when they're due. The longer you do so, the better the score. If you have late payments, get caught up on them and do your best to stay current. As time passes, the importance of these previous late payments will gradually lessen and the score will increase - as long as you make your payments on time on all your credit obligations, and use your available credit responsibly



The proportion of balances to credit limits on your revolving/charge accounts is too high
The proportion of balances to credit limits on your revolving/charge accounts is 76%. The average proportion of balances to credit limits on revolving/charge accounts carried by U.S. consumers is around 34%.

Analysis of consumer credit behavior repeatedly finds that owing a substantial balance on revolving/charge accounts (Visa, MasterCard, Discover, American Express, Diners Club, department store cards, etc.) relative to the amount of revolving/charge credit available to you represents increased risk. In fact, the level of revolving debt is one of the most important factors in the FICO score. The score evaluates your total balances in relation to your total available credit on revolving/charge accounts, as well as on individual revolving/charge accounts. For a given amount of revolving credit available, a greater amount owed indicates a greater risk, and lowers the score. (For credit cards, the total outstanding balance on your last statement is generally the amount that will show in your credit bureau report. Bear in mind that even if you pay off your credit cards in full each and every month, your credit bureau report may show the last billing statement balance on those accounts.)

The more you owe on revolving/charge credit accounts - relative to the amount of credit available to you - the more your score may be affected. So doing your best to pay your revolving/charge account balances is a smart way to help increase your score. On the other hand, shifting balances among revolving/charge accounts, opening up new revolving/charge accounts, and closing down other revolving/charge accounts will not necessarily improve your score, and could possibly decrease your score.

That lien should NOT affect your scores very much. I have seen scores WELL over 700 with liens only 3 or 4 years old.

"According to your credit file, the total amount owed on your past due credit obligations is $488."

That's BofA. That also tells you that this OLD charge-off should not be reported in this manner. It's 6 years old!

I have spent MANY hours arguing with collectors (search for Innovision" as well as Equifax about how charged off accounts are reported.

"Somebody" is going to have to take this to court and get a court order to prevent Equifax and creditors from reporting in this manner. Until then, all you can do is dispute with the bureaus, with BofA, send the dispute, look for violations on their part, and force the deletion by threating to sue.

That's how it usually goes ...

You can find out the impact of the lien if you dispute it while everything else is NOT in dispute. That would make an interesting experiment.

I still don't understand why the score went down after the collection was deleted. Would you consider suing Fair Isaac?

Short of suing, you COULD send your reports to Mr. Quinn at Fair Isaac and ask him what's going on.

Christine, I truly thank you for all of your work and efforts regarding my post.
Suing is an option, I would have to give some thought to, I am not sure if my husband can sue with our living arrangements. Currently we live in The Bahamas but soon we will be moving to Montreal, Canada. My husbands job brings us to foreign countries.

This entire issue with the BofA is getting me frustrated not only are they reporting chargeoff and balance at the same time but this account number is wrong. This would not be a problem so much if this was the only account they are reporting but its not.
Experian only is reporting this account and another account with identical account numbers except for the first digit. I have disputed with Equifax and Experian on this number and disputes came back verified!
I originally disputed through First American Credco, as I got a three- in- one report from them, the dispute to them came back "creditor declines to verify; last delinquent date was in 96. on this BofA account number 13562100XXXX.
When I called BofA they told me that they don't have accounts with a 1 as the first number.
They told me to fax them my dispute to the fraud department. I have not heard back from them yet, as it has not been a month yet.
I have also sent Experian another dispute saying this account is not mine and told them that this information was given to me by the BofA and left the number for them to call them.
On the other BofA account 43562100XXXX Experian is reporting inaccurate information of last activity date, they are stating its 1998, BofA told me themselves that the last payment was received 10/95.
the first time I disputed this account with Experian they sent a letter back to me stating "Please send us detailed reasons why the information is inaccurate. Then we will be able to begin our verification process."
What the hell is that?????? Since when do I need to give them a detailed reason for any dispute, I thought since they are the ones reporting this B.S. that they should be the ones having to explain themselves?

And just last week, we received another letter from Equifax stating that they need drivers licence, identification. Thats so rediculous as I have been disputing with them for months now, this is the second time they have send this letter to my husband.

I re-sent the dispute with a letter requesting the description of the procedures used to determine the accuracy and completeness of the disputed information, including the date of contact, the business name, address, and telephone number of any furnisher of information contacted in connection with this reinvestigation.
I have not mentioned the fact that this account is reporting a chargeoff and a balance owing because this account doesn't exist. I want them to delete this account off the report.
On the other account # 43562100XXXX they are not reporting the account the same way, they are reporting a 0 balance as a chargeoff should be reported.


Exquifax and Trans Union are only reporting account number 13562100XXXX, they have this information all messed up as well. Equifax is reporting a charge off and a balance at the same time. I am thinking that somehow this account number got typed wrong by someone along the way and no one but ME is noticing this mistake!!!!! If this is the case, then they also have the date of last activity wrong too then.

Trans Union is also reporting a charge off and balance and they are reporting "status as of 06/1996: charged off as a bad debt.

I am most interested in sending a letter and report to Mr Quinn at Fair Issac and ask him what is going on in regards to how the score could drop so much from a deletion.
You would think the score would have gone up a bit from that and gone up a bit from the Capital One's balance dropping several hundred dollars now.
If you have any ideas on a letter format I would be most interested in what you have to say.
I am thinking that Mr. Issac will try to just support the reporting of the top reasons for for the score being the way it is. I think he will somehow pussyfoot around the fact that the score was 657 before the deletion.
Also, for proof this account doesn't exist, there is no collection agency trying to collect on the debt that doesn't exist! only NCO is trying to collect on the other account number. I am not paying them, I have already paid them off on the Discover Card which they never made good and reported it paid as they promised to do. I gave them 3,000 to get rid of this. So now I have decided not to pay them. I have send them a letter requesting a receipt showing that I have paid this account. Once I get that receipt I will be sending them a validation letter for the other account. They are telling me that the account amount (chargeoff amount) is 300. higher than it states on the credit reports.
Christine, thank you so much for taking the time to read this rather lengthy message, I hope you can understand everything I have typed as its hard sometimes to explain in a letter all of this. I thank you for your help and support.

Hi Christine,

You mention that you have seen scores well over 700 with tax liens only 3 or 4 years old. After reading this board for awhile, I have been working hard to get my credit cleaned up and have the good fortune to have almost all negative accounts deleted. There is one in dispute which I think will be fixed soon and assuming this happens, I will then have...

16 accounts in good standing.
Credit accounts established for more than 10 years.
No inquiries in 6 months, 1 inquiry in 1 year.
6 revolving accounts, all with zero (or under $100 balances)
$17,000 in revolving credit available (unused)
A good number of installment accounts all paid satisfactory.
No ongoing installment or other debts.

And a CA tax lien open for $8000 since January 2001. Ugh.

I plan on paying this lien by September of this year and my understanding is that it stays on the account for 7 years after being paid. So my question is this...

I assume that my scores should be pretty good now as I've done all the things that (if scores have any logic) I've read you should do. How bad will this tax lien affect my scores is the big question. I want to obtain a mortgage later this year. I have been hesitant to have a mortgage broker run my scores and have been unable to obtain a real FICO score online (doesn't work in my area for some reason).

Any guesses on what I can do to ascertain my score without obtaining an inquiry.

SunKissedBeach, if you travel a lot, suing is a pain, but I have yet to see a creditor not delete upon being served. When you have a legitimate dispute, they'd run the risk of large punitive damages if they didn't delete right away. In some courts you can even file by mail.

However, before you sue, you want to go through the process of letting the creditor know of their incorrect reporting.

Fax or mail certified your dispute to BofA. State that you are disputing the accounts and why. Give them a BRIEF summary of your attempts so far.

On the other BofA account 43562100XXXX Experian is reporting inaccurate information of last activity date, they are stating its 1998, BofA told me themselves that the last payment was received 10/95.

The last payment is the LATEST date they can use to age. However, if you were previously delinquent, that date could be even older.

Because of those violations, I would definitely ask for deletion - after all they seriously damaged your credit by re-aging and you've gone through serious trouble to get this fixed.

Sometimes, especially when you have 2 accounts with one creditor and no other bureau disputes, it's much easier to deal with the creditor directly instead of dealing with THREE totally incompetent credit bureaus. You only send ONE letter to BofA.

If they don't respond, you check your credit again in 30 days, if it's still reported, and especially if not reported as disputed, send the 3 day deletion/settlement letter to BofA, copy the FTC.

If they still don't respond or delete, you may have to sue. But that's VERY unlikely. If at all possible, have someone else do your 3 day letter, under their name and telling them that you PAID for the letter. That generally gets a little more attention, and any friend/relative at a different address can do this for you with a power of attorney.

And, you can of course also hire an attorney to send a letter, that is VERY effective, almost as good as suing, but usually costs more than a small claims suit.

re Fair Isaac You can just fax Mr. Quinn:

Dear Mr. Quinn,

I can't figure out why my score went down after I had my only collection deleted.

On April 23 my score was 657, the Equifax report # is .....

On .. , after the collection was deleted, my score was 619, report number ...

Please explain why my score is now so low.

Thank you,

..."


I'm not sure that they can look up the report by the number, I hope they can. If not, you can always fax the entire reports. I'd really like to know what he says.

Hartsleeve, that's an easy one.

Sign up with Equifax Credit Watch (http://www.bayhouse.com/order-credit.shtml) for the 30 day free trial, get your Beacon score, you'll see your score is WITH the lien.

Then dispute the lien, get your new report the next day, check the score and you'll know how many points the lien is costing you. Try not to have any other changes, and don't dispute any other accounts.

If your score is NOT real good w/o the lien, you know that there's another problem with your report.

It sure sounds like your score should be way above 700 w/o the lien, and in a few years even with the lien.

If you do that little experiment, please post the results.

Hi Christine,

I wish it were that easy. For some reason, the Equifax service is not available in my area. I signed up for this before and was rejected. When I called, they explained that it has something to do with a database problem excluding certain regions. They are working to fix this, but it is still not fixed (just tried to sign up again and was refused).

So I guess I'm just going to have to go to a mortgage broker and have them run a tri-merged report and see what the scores are. I'd like to know before running the report, but I guess this isn't an option for me.

Hartsleeve

<<Hartsleeve, that's an easy one.
Sign up with Equifax Credit Watch (http://www.bayhouse.com/order-credit.shtml) for the 30 day free trial, get your Beacon score, you'll see your score is WITH the lien.>>

That is so odd, as I live in The Bahamas and get this service.

That's too bad, Hartsleeve. As soon as I think something's easy ...

There's even a topic on this, it's really not fair, quite a few areas can't dispute online.

I wished I could at least refer you to a "good" mortgage credit report. Many are just really worthless.